David Lammy. Photo: OnmanoramaDavid Lammy, the UK Labour Party leader and long-term Parliamentarian was in Kerala early January with his family on vacation. Lammy, the first Black Britain to attend Harvard Law School, was a minister in the Labour governments led by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. Author of 'Out of the Ashes: Britain after the Riots' that serves as his account on the causes and consequences of the August 2011 riots, Lammy is an advocate of equality and human rights. In an exclusive interaction with Onmanorama at the serene atmosphere of Kodianthara Heritage Farm House in Kumarakom, 44-year-old Lammy talks of a wide range of issues, including the scope of Left, terrorism, Islamophobia, Indo-British relations and more.
The ascension of Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of your party which has been kept out of power for a longtime now is looked upon as a rebirth of the Left politics in the major European country. Do you believe the Left still has space in the larger scheme of the world order?
I think in an age of huge inequality across the world, in an age of sectarian violence across the world, in an age of excessive consumption and consumerism and environmental damage, of course the Left still has viability. But it must be a politics of innovation and it must be a politics that speaks not just to a tribe but to the whole. It must be an inclusive politics.
And I'm afraid the Left wing politics can't be just as tribal and partisan as rightwing politics. Actually no political tradition is the fount of all ideas. So sometimes you will have to steal your enemy's clothing. And in that sense we did learn something from Bill Clinton and Tony Blair and I believe it's something worth remembering.
Still the major slogan of the Left parties in India is that globalisation has an alternative?
I think that the pace of globalisation is fast and we are living through a phenomenal technological revolution. That is just as deep and powerful as the industrial revolution.
It became reality in 1970s with the invention of computers, accelerated in the 90s with the Internet and now we have the world's leading companies either based in California or indeed in Kerala. So I think that with the ability to get on a plane in Trivandrum and be in Doha within 4 hours, with the ability to do business in London at the click of a button, globalisation is here is to stay.
I don't think the politics of the Left can easily turn its back on what ordinary people are experiencing. But I do believe that the politics of the Left must ameliorate the excesses of global capitalism and huge inequality. And the Centre-Left can address those issues if they are genuine about it. But the Left must never ever lose sight that the engine of any community is enterprise and the individuals that decide that they want to form a business.
Coming to another topic, Europe seems to be facing the threat of terrorism more than the US in recent times. Comment?
I think it is not surprising that in an age of huge technological advance of the mankind, there are groups of people across the world who want to take us back to fundamentalism. Unfortunately, we are experiencing and are set to experience over the next few years a very bloody period in which many innocent people may lose their life. We must remember that the vast majority of people killed in these circumstances were Muslims. This must be fought.
I also think that the oppression of women is one of the elements which must also be fought. The world needs to get serious on how we engage with these fanatics but I'm afraid we cannot engage with them by sending drones and aeroplanes across Syria and Iraq and bombing there. My own view is that diplomatic, political and real endeavours of the UN on the ground in these countries is the only way to defeat terrorism because only what we are doing is pushing terrorism from one country to another -- from Iraq to Libya, to Afghanistan and now to Syria. Which will be the next country? I don't know.
You talked about terrorism and the bloody years ahead. I think the world is in a Catch 22 situation when it comes to fighting terrorism. On the one hand there are these religious extremists and on the other side a number of innocent people who are constantly under suspicion. Do you think the phenomenon of Islamophobia is for real?
I think Islamophobia is higher than it's never been in my lifetime. I think there are young people going to school in some countries who are embarrassed to say that they are Muslims. I think there is tremendous ignorance in countries all over the world. There are people with brown skin in the USA who might be of Hindu background or native Americans and they are still treated in this horrendous ways. I think Islamophobia feels as powerful as the hatred of Jews did at the turn of the last century. It's a curse, we must pull it out and we must recognise that these fanatics that are engaged in jihadism are not actual representatives of the vast majority of Muslims who want to live a peaceful life. They are killing more Muslims than anybody else.
Let's come to another field that's the relation between India and the UK. How do you view the present and the future of the relationship between the two countries, once the coloniser and the colonised?
The relationship between the UK and India is phenomenally strong and has remained so across successive governments in Britain. India is one of our closest partners. We have strong historical ties. I think the future of India has got to be bright. There is a reason why the growth in India over the next 30 years will outstretch the rest of the world.
Well, I was delighted to host an event in the Parliament for the UK Kerala Business Forum. It's an important forum for us. Its meetings are held at the House of Commons. It's an opportunity to forge links between businessmen in Kerala, Parliamentarians and businessmen in the UK.
Britain obviously is a multicultural country, you got in London people from everywhere and everybody wants to come to London. In my own constituency, there are over 200 languages spoken. And because so many Indians are in the UK, and now many Indo-British in the Parliament, we always have a special relationship.
'Cameron government not accommodating'
Still, there is one thing I'm very critical of the current Conservative government led by David Cameron. I used to be on the Gordon Browne government under the ministry responsible for the universities. Under the Tony Blair and Gordon Browne period we had a huge expansion of UK universities working in partnerships with India, setting up campuses in India, and many Indian students had come to British universities.
We also assured Indian students the opportunity to stay and work in the UK after they finish their studies. We also had fees set at a moderate level that Indian students can afford. I think the David Cameron government has made a catastrophic mistake in imposing excessive fees on Indians and putting too many Indian students through many hoops to come and study in the UK and then in not allowing sufficient Indians to stay and work in London. I think it's damaging to Indo-Anglo relations and I look forward to a Labour government coming to power because we will reverse some of the changes that have been made on visa particularly for higher education students.
Throughout your career, you have been a champion of the causes of several human rights, including LGBT rights. In India, homosexuality is still criminalised let alone the talks of same sex marriage. What's your views on the matter?
I think that, my ancestors were indentured workers. In Indian terms I think they would have left Kolkata as untouchables, low castes. And they are slaves. And here I sit, the first black Britain to attend Harvard Law School, a member of the UK parliament. I don't think that when my great grandmother, when she was getting on a boat leaving India, would ever dream that it's possible. That's progress. That is human rights.
I think those who are on side of denying someone the right to love who they want to love are on the wrong side of history. Those who enslaved black people or oppressed Indian people were on the wrong side of history. Those who insist on keeping women back are on the wrong side of history.
Can you speak on the services of the Indians, especially Keralites in the health sector of the UK?
Well. The national health service would collapse if it wasn't for those people. We have a health service in Britain which much of the world looks into. It's completely free at the point of delivery and largely built on the backs of some fantastic Keralite and Indian doctors and some incredible nurses. And it's renewed by Indian immigration considerably. And obviously Indians are at the forefront of medicine and engineering that make a big contribution to the Indian economy.
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